From: owner-sc-users-digest@lists.io.com (sc-users-digest) To: sc-users-digest@lists.io.com Subject: sc-users-digest V1 #314 Reply-To: sc-users Sender: owner-sc-users-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-sc-users-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk sc-users-digest Sunday, July 1 2001 Volume 01 : Number 314 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:08:51 -0400 From: Lee Azzarello <---@---.---> Subject: Lag w/o Mouse movement Just a curiosity I have. If there is a synth playing that has some sort of graphical representation, like .scope for example, why do the graphics start to lag behind the sound if the mouse is not constantly moving? I've noticed this in many other audio programs like Logic, Reason and Max/Msp. Is it just how digital audio on the macintosh works...? - -------------------- - -l[e^2] *old { ^this.shouldNotImplement(thisMethod) } http://eds.org/~lee ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:14:59 -0500 From: James McCartney <---@---.---> Subject: Re: Lag w/o Mouse movement on 6/29/01 4:08 PM, Lee Azzarello at lee@eds.org wrote: > Just a curiosity I have. If there is a synth playing that has some sort of > graphical representation, like .scope for example, why do the graphics start > to lag behind the sound if the mouse is not constantly moving? I've noticed > this in many other audio programs like Logic, Reason and Max/Msp. Is it just > how digital audio on the macintosh works...? The reasons for this were just given in the Scope thread. Have you turned off "allow processor cycling" ? Other than that it is probably the cooperative multitasking. - --- james mccartney james@audiosynth.com SuperCollider - a real time synthesis programming language for the PowerMac. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 02:23:42 +0200 From: Julian Rohrhuber <---@---.---> Subject: Re: overriding mouseDown >hmm, can I do it not as a class? At this point I just need to "drag" objects >like rect, oval or lines. So, like Mouse's .action of SC2 or position from >top left corner, NOT as MouseX stuff, which gives 0.0->1.0 relative to >monitor. I know the "where" guy has it but I couldn't find a way to get it >raw from GUI classes. > >Are there some stuff that I can't do without creating a class? I thought I >can do anything on the "ground level" not underground, especially in version >3. Writing class is fine easy but if I think of distributing class, or patch >that uses the class it'll be mess like "hey i can't compile." (maybe making >compressed lib is the right way for destribution, to hide the source hehe, >but the size gets too big compare to Max's Collection/standalone >destribution way...) there will be a lot more kind of views included in the standard classes of v3 (just guessing) so there will be what you need. But why not doing it now? > >I'm making/would like to make things like a complete sound editor/recorder >in SC3, Envelope editor, LPC analyzer, etc tools so I don't need to start >Peak, Cecilia, or calcurating on paper. this would be nice. And very flexible, extendable. But this will be a class library, won't it? Did you check out the SFP Library? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 21:09:43 EDT From: JoJoBuBu@aol.com Subject: CPU (related to scope) - --part1_8e.17aef657.286e80d7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/29/2001 5:14:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, asynth@io.com writes: > > on 6/29/01 4:08 PM, Lee Azzarello at lee@eds.org wrote: > > > Just a curiosity I have. If there is a synth playing that has some sort of > > graphical representation, like .scope for example, why do the graphics > start > > to lag behind the sound if the mouse is not constantly moving? I've > noticed > > this in many other audio programs like Logic, Reason and Max/Msp. Is it > just > > how digital audio on the macintosh works...? > > The reasons for this were just given in the Scope thread. > Have you turned off "allow processor cycling" ? > I have had another problem relating to this scope thread. I have tried all the things mentioned with no luck. Whenever I run a patch, any patch in SC2 or 3, my average CPU is about half of my peak CPU whch is very eratic and almost looks like a CPU spike (bouncing from very small numbers to big alot). This is probably a dumb question but is this normal behavior for SC or is there something wrong in my setup? My setup is Ibook 300, OS 9.1, SC2 or 3 of course, Soundmanager, 192 megs ram... Thanks Andy - --part1_8e.17aef657.286e80d7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/29/2001 5:14:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, asynth@io.com
writes:



on 6/29/01 4:08 PM, Lee Azzarello at lee@eds.org wrote:

> Just a curiosity I have. If there is a synth playing that has some sort of
> graphical representation, like .scope for example, why do the graphics
start
> to lag behind the sound if the mouse is not constantly moving? I've
noticed
> this in many other audio programs like Logic, Reason and Max/Msp. Is it
just
> how digital audio on the macintosh works...?

The reasons for this were just given in the Scope thread.
Have you turned off "allow processor cycling" ?
Other than that it is probably the cooperative multitasking.



I have had another problem relating to this scope thread. I have tried all
the things mentioned with no luck. Whenever I run a patch, any patch in SC2
or 3, my average CPU is about half of my peak CPU whch is very eratic and
almost looks like a CPU spike (bouncing from very small numbers to big alot).
This is probably a dumb question but is this normal behavior for SC or is
there something wrong in my setup?

My setup is Ibook 300, OS 9.1, SC2 or 3 of course, Soundmanager, 192 megs
ram...

Thanks
Andy - --part1_8e.17aef657.286e80d7_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 03:26:54 +0200 From: Arie van Schutterhoef <---@---.---> Subject: Re: CPU (related to scope) > Whenever I run a patch, any patch in SC2 >or 3, my average CPU is about half of my peak CPU whch is very eratic and >almost looks like a CPU spike (bouncing from very small numbers to big >alot). - -This is of course very much dependant on what's inside your patch: spawning switched on/off; soundfiles triggered/not triggered; external audio input scanned, etc. etc. One useful indication can be to look at the amount of UGens used: 100 on a 400 mhz machine shouldn't be much of a problem; 400 is asking for trouble! Also cpu load to a maximum of 90 % is as far one can go during live performances. >My setup is Ibook 300, OS 9.1, SC2 or 3 of course, Soundmanager, 192 megs >ram... - -The secondary cache of PPC G3 is 256 kb, which can be a a problem, the bigger the secondary cache like the 1 mb in a PPC G4 the more the cpu can keep up with the data flow, thus avoiding 'peaks'. best Avs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .................................................................. ^ Arie van Schutterhoef | arsche@xs4all.nl ^_±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±__""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" | ` |Schreck Ensemble http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/ | ` |# -laboratory for live electro-acoustic music- # | ` |Tel: 00-31-71-5612287 Fax: 00-31-70-3859268 | *========================================================++ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 21:42:08 EDT From: JoJoBuBu@aol.com Subject: Re: CPU (related to scope) - --part1_34.1735728d.286e8870_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/29/2001 9:29:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, arsche@xs4all.nl writes: > > Whenever I run a patch, any patch in SC2 > >or 3, my average CPU is about half of my peak CPU whch is very eratic and > >almost looks like a CPU spike (bouncing from very small numbers to big > >alot). > -This is of course very much dependant on what's inside > your patch: spawning switched on/off; soundfiles triggered/not > triggered; external audio input scanned, etc. etc. > One useful indication can be to look at the amount of > UGens used: 100 on a 400 mhz machine shouldn't be > much of a problem; 400 is asking for trouble! > Also cpu load to a maximum of 90 % is as far one > can go during live performances. > > >My setup is Ibook 300, OS 9.1, SC2 or 3 of course, Soundmanager, 192 megs > >ram... > -The secondary cache of PPC G3 is 256 kb, which can be a > a problem, the bigger the secondary cache like the 1 mb > in a PPC G4 the more the cpu can keep up with > the data flow, thus avoiding 'peaks'. > > > best > Hmm interesting. I didn't specify a patch because this behavior has been realitevly consistent no matter how many Ugens are running or whats in the patch(oddly enough). In other words the behavior hasn't been related to any one patch in my case. I've tried spawns, patterns, live input(through Imic), just about every example patch on SC and my own patches and the behavior is relatively consistent throughout, which is why I was a little boggled. The peak is nearly always eratic and about double the average. Maybe this is totally normal, but I wasn't sure so I was asking. As for the secondary cache is there any software settings, within SC or not, that I could fuddle with to try and get around this problem besides the ones mentioned in the scope thread earlier (if you caught those)? Cheers, Andy - --part1_34.1735728d.286e8870_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/29/2001 9:29:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
arsche@xs4all.nl writes:


> Whenever I run a patch, any patch in SC2
>or 3, my average CPU is about half of my peak CPU whch is very eratic and
>almost looks like a CPU spike (bouncing from very small numbers to big
>alot).
-This is of course very much dependant on what's inside
 your patch: spawning switched on/off; soundfiles triggered/not
             triggered; external audio input scanned, etc. etc.
 One useful indication can be to look at the amount of
 UGens used: 100 on a 400 mhz machine shouldn't be
 much of a problem; 400 is asking for trouble!
 Also cpu load to a maximum of 90 % is as far one
 can go during live performances.

>My setup is Ibook 300, OS 9.1, SC2 or 3 of course, Soundmanager, 192 megs
>ram...
-The secondary cache  of PPC G3 is 256 kb, which can be a
a problem, the bigger the secondary cache like the 1 mb
in a PPC G4 the more the cpu can keep up with
the data flow, thus avoiding 'peaks'.


best
Avs


Hmm interesting. I didn't specify a patch because this behavior has been
realitevly consistent no matter how many Ugens are running or whats in the
patch(oddly enough). In other words the behavior hasn't been related to any
one patch in my case. I've tried spawns, patterns, live input(through Imic),
just about every example patch on SC and my own patches and the behavior is
relatively consistent throughout, which is why I was a little boggled. The
peak is nearly always eratic and about double the average. Maybe this is
totally normal, but I wasn't sure so I was asking.

As for the secondary cache is there any software settings, within SC or not,
that I could fuddle with to try and get around this problem besides the ones
mentioned in the scope thread earlier (if you caught those)?

Cheers,
Andy - --part1_34.1735728d.286e8870_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:59:08 -0700 From: "tomonori yamasaki" <---@---.---> Subject: Re: overriding mouseDown >>compressed lib ... big compare to Max's Collection/standalone >>destribution way... I checked out the new Max4/MSP2. I was wrong: Max App goes over a Meg anyway. > there will be a lot more kind of views included in the standard classes > of v3 (just guessing) so there will be what you need. > But why not doing it now? yeah, I guess I should start poke around classes to make exactly what I need. >>I'm making/would like to make things like a complete sound editor/recorder >>in SC3, Envelope editor, LPC analyzer, etc tools so I don't need to start >>Peak, Cecilia, or calcurating on paper. > > this would be nice. And very flexible, extendable. But this will be a > class library, won't it? Did you check out the SFP Library? hmm, I just want generic tools so I can use for many applications: SFP is opening/playing file all-in-one, I rather have a shampoo and conditioner separately. I want some GUI that spits out numbers: 1. SignalView: select a part of signal and get [start,end] 2. spectral/time graph: [x,y,width,height]->[selectedFreqRange,Duration] of selected area (like metasynth, you know) 3. envelope editor: oval and zigzag should do, but I couldn't move oval as drag, which I have make subclass I guess.) 4. Filter window: give type, fundFreq and Q to get visual rep. 5. 3DSlider: 2DSlider plus the size of BevelRect changes as Wacom Pen pressure or tilt changes, should look like a object is moving in a 3D box space, to spit out (x,y,z) position of the object, to use with spacial effects, 3D panning... new max has cool GUIs like the filter view thing, "file drag'n'drop box" to get path to the file etc, interesting. The sound has been improved, I guess, but I still feel like it's got mild high... maybe because of Sound Manager? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:06:20 -0700 From: "tomonori yamasaki" <---@---.---> Subject: Re: CPU (related to scope) > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --MS_Mac_OE_3076686380_383498_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit mine is good, CPU etc number changes flawlessly, signal updates very good. iBook Orange, 320MB RAM, no virtual Ram. 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http://www.iodata.co.jp/products/sounds/d2link/index.htm a japanese company made a usb optical out cable. 1. PC or Mac, optical out 2. on PC, it supports 5.1 dts out (not on mac) 3. ready to be used for MD player/recorder 4. $70! is this going to be the easiest cheapest audio out for a gig? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 13:51:02 +0200 From: heiko goelzer <---@---.---> Subject: PlayJustLoop.sc dear ben and others, i was playing the PlayJustLoop example and found this question in your code. rate = (tempo * size) / (2646000 * (2**nBeats.asInt)); // can this formula be simplified further??? for my opinion it should say something like this. rate = (tempo/60) * (size/44100) * (1/nBeats) ; then a sample of tempo 60 with 4 beats and 4 sec(44100*4 samples) should play with rate 1. same for a sample with 1 beat and 1 sec. double tempo -> double rate. double beats (with same size) -> half rate. if this is what you intended. asInt ? why dont you let us use half beats or fractions (nBeats = 2.5). much more fun like this i would say. thanks for that code man. all the best heiko ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:58:04 +0200 From: Arie van Schutterhoef <---@---.---> Subject: Re: CPU (related to scope) >The >peak is nearly always eratic and about double the average. - -I don't know whether you're using midi to change settings in your patches. Which could explain these changes! If you're using 'oscillator benchmarks' from the examples folder, do you get the same behaviour? >As for the secondary cache is there any software settings, within SC or not, - -You could experiment with different default block size settings in the audio set up panel, but the size of the secondary cache is hardware fixed. Some interesting reading matter about the importance of secondary cache sizes can be found at: http://lowendmac.net/musings/750cx.html best AvS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .................................................................. ^ Arie van Schutterhoef | arsche@xs4all.nl ^_±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±__""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" | ` |Schreck Ensemble http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/ | ` |# -laboratory for live electro-acoustic music- # | ` |Tel: 00-31-71-5612287 Fax: 00-31-70-3859268 | *========================================================++ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:24:36 +0200 From: heiko goelzer <---@---.---> Subject: Re: PlayJustLoop.sc > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --B_3076763077_691673 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit dear ben, am i to linear? i dont really get this n**something idea. in my version of PlayBankLoop.sc(att) i would have nBeats to specify the number of beats in the sample, mChunks to specify the number of junks to cut from it, offset < mChunks to specify the loopstart. example: one would cut a 16 beat sample in mChunks=16 bits and play the offset+1 bit in a loop. does that make any sence to you i do like your code though heiko PlayBankLoop { // b.milstein 2.2001 modified by h.g *ar { arg bank,index,tempo,nBeats,mChunks,offset=0,mul=1.0,add=0; var signal,size; var rate,loopend,loopstart,env; signal = bank.getSignal(index); size = bank.getSize(index); rate = (tempo/60) * (1/nBeats) * (size/44100) ; loopstart = offset * size/mChunks; loopend = (size/mChunks) + loopstart; ^PlayBuf.ar(signal, bank.getSampleRate(index), rate, loopstart, loopstart, loopend, mul, add) } } - --B_3076763077_691673 Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="PlayBankLoop.sc—.sit"; x-mac-creator="53495421"; x-mac-type="53495435" Content-disposition: attachment Content-transfer-encoding: base64 U3R1ZmZJdCAoYykxOTk3LTE5OTggQWxhZGRpbiBTeXN0ZW1zLCBJbmMuLCBodHRwOi8vd3d3 LmFsYWRkaW5zeXMuY29tL1N0dWZmSXQvDQoaAAUQAAAC2wAAAHIAAQAAAHJnnw2lpVJlc2Vy dmVkpaUApaWlpQEAAEEAELdjqYq3Y6mKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABHC1QAAAekAAAEMAAAAAA8A UGxheUJhbmtMb29wLnNjy5wAAW1zVEVYVFNDam0BAAE8ApAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgAAAAAAAAAAA AAJoAAAA6gAAAAAPAELB1SCzskFp/jqVVWTwuqfLbLOcTb8bmeBgWmXFQ4MrRHMyZh+FElyQ 9FSRZCyj0/tDAK6a8LB9zkhl5SR8dmd5wIrEGT7pdTOJn+6l4XNYFe/RoeIQsdMV/mlMdqNC Bt684XZNiCdF2gR6NCGCgxFpJbj78ozWeTKnrV7LeIeV0gqVaRPSNGl95y56w3cvDUQpquHK 9L2r/MTTniWtVCG3gySDmgfLlTK65sG9nNkPpgaMbR6fb5XD2Ue5hMWU+Ly/E7LQekn2Hh1T 0Rx00i8RdikanOsA0ujmkJneDYI8G7pvhdBDV4WeaELB1IYyTQTZ6MorerdaxPEjMhWSyYxs BWz1rzpgWX/6ppKXQbA50EKBjRqjTLJs4tHT9sQ2sUN/dW+7z/n5mDt0Xpe32Sk7y+MvCIf/ 4onCddHLLC7w4G7RgraMdk9zy2LsF1rFHgtAQKM5Vi4FEHcq4e3pT/9RVhon35+DcQmR8cxl TVU+kCQi7Mr/xNl9oPq3LkSu09xUCZs1Lu0DQRIdKkEL9Gs638/DjSkpLPT5IAYOD5uhUAq0 mnjSSLNZy4Gd3lE0+UWVc0PQwFGzi2ox17wRrhpdvHk9gc4h4SfvsrsicNsKA2wF9Rx9UYZU p9bFWOWHCzZsYzFKwpTGmdHeOt9ACWyRwaLUfyA= - --B_3076763077_691673-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 13:06:08 EDT From: JoJoBuBu@aol.com Subject: Re: CPU (related to scope) - --part1_82.c6d2412.286f6100_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/30/2001 10:01:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, arsche@xs4all.nl writes: > -You could experiment with different default block size settings > in the audio set up panel, but the size of the secondary cache > is hardware fixed. > > Some interesting reading matter about the importance of > secondary cache sizes can be found at: > http://lowendmac.net/musings/750cx.html > > best > Thanks I'll mess with it. Andy - --part1_82.c6d2412.286f6100_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/30/2001 10:01:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
arsche@xs4all.nl writes:


-You could experiment with different default block size settings
in the audio set up panel, but the size of the secondary cache
is hardware fixed.

Some interesting reading matter about the importance of
secondary cache sizes can be found at:
http://lowendmac.net/musings/750cx.html

best
AvS


Thanks I'll mess with it.

Andy - --part1_82.c6d2412.286f6100_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:13:34 -0600 From: David Cottle <---@---.---> Subject: OOT: Lyrics to What's New Hi, Sorry for posting to this group, but I'm on the road and away from all my books. I think there's a pretty good chance someone will know the lyrics to What's New. What's new? Pardon my asking what's new. . . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:56:34 +0200 From: Julian Rohrhuber <---@---.---> Subject: Re: overriding mouseDown > >I want some GUI that spits out numbers: >1. SignalView: select a part of signal and get [start,end] tip: do an [start, insplice, outsplice, end] view. so that you can take full advantage of the Synth.process functionality. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 15:21:00 +0100 From: "fabrice mogini" <---@---.---> Subject: About copying code (printing strings) About copying code (printing strings); I have a long Pbind function (with a lot of code inside) that I wish to copy many times inside an array. I want the number of copies made to that new array to be dependent on the size of another array called numb ( the number of sounds used in my function. Thes sounds will all use the original Pbind, slightly modified). When I create copies, and post the new array, certain characters from my code seem to be ignored. ( var sound1, sound2, numb, code, newarray; a = [sound1,sound2]; numb = a.size; newarray = Array.fill(numb); code = "da di dou"; numb.do({arg i; newarray.put(i,(code)); }); newarray.postln; ) the above prints b correctly: [ da di dou, da di dou ] When code contents certain characters like: \, it cannot be duplicated properly! ( var sound1, sound2, numb, code, newarray; a = [sound1,sound2]; numb = a.size; newarray = Array.fill(numb); code = "Pbind(\ dur,2,\ freq,1000)"; numb.do({arg i; newarray.put(i,(code)); }); newarray.postln; ) the above prints: [ Pbind( dur,2, freq,1000), Pbind( dur,2, freq,1000) ] Is there another way of copying code regardless of its content so I can still use characters such as: \, //, or any other as long as it is between double quotes""? When I try to post longer code, I get the message: etc... [ Pbind( dur,2, freq,1000), Pbind( dur,2, freq,1000)etc.... Is it possible to keep on posting the entire code? Cheers Fabrice ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 08:31:54 -0600 From: "David Cottle" <---@---.---> Subject: Re: OOT: Lyrics to What's New Hi, > Sorry for posting to this group, but I'm on the road and away from all my > books. I think there's a pretty good chance someone will know the lyrics to > What's New. Got them. Thanks to those who responded directly to me. Here they are in case anyone else wonders: What's New written by Johnny Burke and Bob Haggart © 1939 Marke Music Pub Co Inc/ Warner Brothers Inc/ Limerick Music Corp/ Reganesque Music Co/ Tim-Co Music (ASCAP) What's new How is the world treating you You haven't changed a bit Handsome as ever I must admit What's new How did that romance come through We haven't met since then Gee but it's nice to see you again What's new Probably I'm boring you But seeing you is grand And you were sweet to offer your hand I understand Adieu Pardon my asking what's new Of course you couldn't know I haven't changed I still love you so Adieu Pardon my asking what's new Of course you couldn't know I haven't changed I still love you so - --On Saturday, June 30, 2001 11:13 -0600 David Cottle wrote: > Hi, > > Sorry for posting to this group, but I'm on the road and away from all my > books. I think there's a pretty good chance someone will know the lyrics > to What's New. > > What's new? Pardon my asking what's new. . . > Gary Lee Nelson TIMARA Department Conservatory of Music Oberlin, OH 44074 office: 440-775-8223 home: 330-922-5958 fax: 440-775-8942 email: Gary.Nelson@oberlin.edu http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:51:51 +0200 From: Julian Rohrhuber <---@---.---> Subject: Re: USB-optical out cable >http://www.iodata.co.jp/products/sounds/d2link/index.htm >a japanese company made a usb optical out cable. >1. PC or Mac, optical out >2. on PC, it supports 5.1 dts out (not on mac) (and in-out would be even better ... ) >3. ready to be used for MD player/recorder >4. $70! > >is this going to be the easiest cheapest audio out for a gig? do you know about latency? ------------------------------ End of sc-users-digest V1 #314 ******************************